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ASXL1 Mutation

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Hello,

How many out there have this mutation?

For those who have or had it, I have several questions.

1) How have you and your team addressed this in general?

2) Did you experience TKI resistance?

3) Have you and your team looked into ALOX5 inhibitors?

For #2 and #3, I've come across some interesting studies. One of the more interesting studies is:

CML With Mutant ASXL1 Showed Decreased Sensitivity to TKI Treatment via Upregulation of the ALOX5-BLTR Signaling Pathway

PMID: 39905783 PMCID: PMC11967257 DOI: 10.1111/cas.70007

Thank you and look forward to your input.

Hi there,

I‘m sorry I haven’t seen your post earlier.

I have it, G646T on ASXL1 and also F317L on ABL1. I‘ve been taking Asciminib and Dasatinib, first half a dose till peripheral blood stabilised, now full dose.

F317L is resistant to Imatinib and Dasatinib. While on Nilotinib, Bosutinib and Asciminib, my peripheral blood was okay, but BCR fluctuated between 10 and 40. After a while I was informed that I have G646T and was recommended Ponatinib or BMT, but I refused both. Then I tried the combo option and it worked, but was too strong, so had to stop and resume half a dose, which normalised blood counts, but had no deep effects on BCR.

Now on full dose I hope to see deeper response. I feel well, there are no issues.

I found 2 ALOX5 inhibitors, Zileuton and Montelukast, however Zileuton is not available in Europe and Montelukast seems a bit dangerous.

https://share.google/aimode/XiROnK54wS1uOkd6j

https://share.google/aimode/KYxMgrP6wLFEUprdC

https://ashpublications.org/blood/article/126/23/4835/93445/Alox-5-As-a-...

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jcp.30301

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19503090/

I‘ve been taking natural leukotriene inhibitors which improves overall wellbeing and energy, it also fixed a nasty rash I had on my head - some kind of follicle inflammation caused by the combo therapy.

I gained 14 kilos since September and I think it's also somehow related to inflammation.

I shared some documentation with my doctor and will ask him how to get Zileuton. I think it could really help with both resistance and LSCs.

Hello and thank you for your detailed response.

I recall mentioning Zileuton to my CML specialist. He was unenthusiastic about any ALOX5 inhibitors. He stated they are not worth the trouble.

There is still a part of me that wonders ALOX5 inhibitors have a place for ASXL1.

I have been taking Boswellia, a herbal supplement, as I've come across some interesting studies which indicate it may work in inhibition of ALOX5. I don't know if it is working but there are no contraindications in my case.

Another ALOX5 inhibitor appears to be caffeic acid but I haven't tried it.

I will bring up Zileuton again when I meet with the specialist later this month.

Re: the natural leukotriene inhibitor, last year I found a study which mentions this but did not think much of it. Your post has made me very curious on exploring this! Thank you!

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/cas.70007

"ALOX5 downstream signal inhibition by LY293111, a leukotriene B4 receptor (BLTR) antagonist, suppressed AKT phosphorylation and enhanced TKI sensitivity."

FYI: There are currently three new TKIs in development which appear quite promising. I don't know what the status is in Europe as I'm in U.S.

Olverembatinib
This has been in use for over 5+ years in China with impressive results. I know it addresses T315I with less toxicity of Ponatinib. It is scheduled to be released later this year in U.S. (based on what an oncology nurse and fellow CMLer told me).

ELVN
This is still in the testing phase. But the early results are very impressive for CMLers who did not respond to multiple TKIs (including Asciminib). It is ATP competitive, if memory serves me.

TERN
This is still in the testing phase. Again, very impressive preliminary results. This binds to the myristoyl pocket. In other words, this has the potential to be a better version of Asciminib. The way I see it, why would anyone go through the trouble and expense of developing a myristoyl pocket binding TKI if it's just going to be as good as Asciminib?

These drugs, if/when approved, may be the next evolution in CML treatment. For those who can tolerate an ATP competitive+myristoyl pocket binding TKI, I strongly suspect this can be an improvement over current drugs in use.

Thanks again and please feel free to update on this subject. I'm very curious on how things go should you try Zileuton.

EDIT: I believe I have been consuming caffeic acid all this time - in the form of coffee. I would still like to add other compounds such as Zileuton, if possible.

Hello,

If you are in the US you may want to try AKBA which is a more potent version of boswellia. It's available from Pure Encapsulations.
I also take betulin, curcumin, vitamins e and d.
Quercetin is another powerful ALOX5 inhibitor, but it causes me chest pain so I avoid it. I ordered rutin, which is a less potent cousin of quercetin, but haven't tried it yet.
I've also ordered baicalein which is a potent ALOX15 inhibitor, but haven't started taking it yet. It also inhibits CYP3A4, so should be careful.

https://share.google/aimode/iT9GgOm3Gyi53g1Wb
https://share.google/aimode/QwjuBK3w4tJ91Eaw4

It's important to spread these throughout the day, e.g. take some every 2 hours, just as they recommend it for Zileuton, but at least 2-3 hours away from TKIs.

What TKI you take and how it's affecting your BCR?

New TKIs are great for newly diagnosed, but waiting for these is probably not wise for people with ASXL1 mutations.

I've tried mebendasole, which is cytotoxic against CML even at nano concentrations and does not discriminate against LSCs. However, it's an allosteric inhibitor which attaches to ABL1, just like asciminib, but it's slow acting like interferon, so it seems it competes with asciminib, unlike thought by the researchers, and caused my platelets to go up, so had to stop it. It should synergise with ATP competitive TKIs and should be taken for at least 6 months just like interferon. I took it for 2 months, confirmed twice it's increasing platelets count, but didn't cause any side effects.

There are ways to enhance TKI absorption which translates into higher exposure and deeper response. I added vitamin c and k2 to TKIs.

Exposure > effects:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18256322/
https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/pharmacology/articles/10.3389/fphar...
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12109594/
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4950523/

Enhancers:
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1078155217692152
https://www.mdpi.com/1424-8247/16/11/1527
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35778632/
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10478393/

At the moment I take half a dose TKIs twice a day as both have very short half life (plasma concentration drops below 50% within 4-5 hours). Once BCR stabilises, I will switch to full dose once a day as plasma concentration increases more than double and leads to deeper response. For example, asciminib 40mg peaks at 800 ng/ml, while 80mg peaks at 1800 ng/ml. They say that higher even short-lived transient peak makes deeper impact.

https://share.google/aimode/bp0ZTB4sReds9Bl44

I also drink coffee, but mostly espresso from Arabica, while AI suggests it is Robusta that inhibits ALOX5. I guess I need to adjust there as well. :)

https://share.google/aimode/J8bTWRem9qYbDzSwo

Thanks very much for the info!

For some reason, my user account switches between 56x11 and StayStrong3916. I must've have created two separate accounts.

Currently on scemblix 20mg. The dose I take is small because any and all TKIs drop my platelet count.

BCR fluctuates and I was warned about not panicking by several specialists. Currently using basophils as a proxy while still testing BCR every three months.

I believe you're on the right track using ATP and myristoyl TKIs. I, unfortunately, do not have that luxury.

Will look into AKBA.

I had no idea re Robusta. Will look into it.

baicalein is something I'll have to avoid. Although I've been tested as a normal metabolizer of CYP3A4, I need to avoid any inhibitors or inducers.

Fascinating how mebendasole may compete with scemblix. Will need to avoid that as well.

I also take D3+K2. I add magnesium glycinate for overall health and I've read it helps with D3 absorption. Where I live there is plenty of sun; therefore, I try to get about 15 minutes exposure in the morning for natural D as well as natural infra red light.

I've tried artificial infra red light and noticed it increases ALL my counts. The platelet increase is welcome. Unfortunately, basophils (absolute and percentage) also increases. Therefore, I stopped artificial IR.

There is a youtube vid with an Infra Red Light specialist out of University College London. I don't recall his name but he did warn against artificial IR for cancer patients. This video is several years old at this stage so I don't know if he has changed his stance.

Because I have no formal scientific training, it'll take several reads of the studies you provided for me to get a good handle on them.

Thanks again and let's stay in touch!

I think I have similar issue with platelets. They dropped to merely 20 after 3 weeks of Bosutinib 400 mg, then it took months to recover. When I was on Mebendazole, platelets went up to 850 in 2 weeks, while WBC increased only to 20. It seems ASXL1 affects platelets more then other cells.

When I was on half a dose TKI platelets were within normal range, then on full dose they dropped to 65 after 4 weeks. I hope they don't drop lower.

In EU generic Dasatinib costs 500 euros for 30 x 100 mg tablets on private prescription. If you are taking only 20 mg Scemblix, you probably wouldn't need more than 20 mg Dasatinib, which would cost you around 3 euros per day, so I guess you could try it out of pocket.

The same goes for generic Imatinib which costs around 350 euros for 30 x 400 mg tablets and you probably wouldn't need more than 100-200 mg per day.

Combination therapy in patients with CML-CP/AP with ≥2 prior TKIs (n = 81) or with T315I with ≥1 prior TKI (n = 2) demonstrated rapid responses with adequate tolerability.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41375-025-02592-9

Another option is Interferon which is in combination with TKI an official and approved CML therapy, so you should be able to get it through your insurance. It's slow acting so you wouldn't see any effects on cell counts for months and it would probably restart your immune system. It slows your brain down and makes you tired in first weeks, but then it doesn't feel so bad. In Europe on private prescription, 250 mcg pen costs 2700 euros. This is basically 5 weekly doses, but may cost more in the US, so probably not an option without insurance support.

My specialist also advises to relax as I still have options, but I think that's because he works in hospital's ambulance 3 weeks per month and I simply don't look like his average (hospitalised) patient.

In my case, the order of occurrence is always: 1) platelets drop first; 2) ANC soon follows; 3) RBC then follows.

The prior heme/onc is such a god damn imbecile that I experienced full blown pancytopenia. Terrifying there are so many incompetent MDs out there.

Now that I'm much more aware, I ease off on the tki dosing using the platelet count as the primary indicator. This way, I never reach neutropenia and certainly do not reach anemia.

In one of your prior posts, there is a study regarding cherries. I did some research on this and like the info. Based on my limited understanding, although it may not directly address CML, it has a good potential of helping in a tangential manner.

A few days ago, I started supplementing with tart cherry extract 3600mg 1x day.

The most noticeable benefit is the melatonin aspect. I think I'm getting deeper sleep. It does make me drowsy so I've been taking it closer to bed time. I couldn't find any information on inhibition/induction of CYP3A4 so I'm cautiously optimistic.

Last year, my specialist shot down the idea of ATP+myristoyl combination. I believe it has to do with the fact that I'm already on a small dose of scemblix. I'll bring this up again.

The interferon angle is very intriguing. I do recall the specialist bringing this up a year or so ago. Perhaps I may respond well to scemblix+interferon. I also wonder if a smaller dose of interferon may work in my case. Will definitely bring this up with specialist later this month.

Do you and your specialist use absolute basophil count+basophil percentage as a proxy for your CML status?

Thanks very much.

My RBCs also dropped initially on Bosutinib and took long time to recover, but now seems that healthy cells took over and they don't fluctuate any longer.

I drink some natural sweet black cherry juice occasionally, not sure if it has any effects. Unfortunately measuring TKI concentrations is very expensive and normally no one does it out of curiosity, so we cannot really measure the effects. In the lab they were able to quadruple the absorption, which is probably impossible in vivo and no one needs something like that, but I think it may help deepen the response a little bit.

I find vitamin K very interesting as it seems it's cytotoxic against CML at 10 micro-mol levels and works well with Asciminib, but that's about 1000 times more than what we get through oral administration. 365 mcg peaks at 10 nano-mol, so I take 2 mg in hope it can boost Asciminib a little bit.

I think it's not a great long term strategy to sit on a high BCR as it translates to low TKI exposure which drives mutations according to one of the docos I posted earlier (the one about Dasatinib exposure-efficacy). Of course, the primary objective is to stabilise the peripheral blood and make sure the counts are within normal range, then you may consider trying a combo therapy.

I was on 50 mcg of Interferon once a week for 4 months, but had to stop it since I started 2 TKIs. You could take even less e.g. 25-30 mcg, but the pen I used had a dose dial that starts with 0 > test drop > 50 mcg > 60 > 70... 250. If you can get it and tolerate it, I think it's the way to go. The new version (pegylated) is much more effective than the old stuff that was used before TKIs, so smaller doses are effective and cause less side effects.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3703612/
https://acsjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/cncr.28328
https://journals.lww.com/oncology-times/fulltext/2016/01250/cml__first_l...
https://share.google/aimode/YFddzDlIvdpJKEtrZ

If I remember correctly, my specialist points to monocytes, which are sometimes elevated, but will ask him next week.

That is some great info - especially on the interferon. Thanks very much.

At this point, I'm going to revisit this topic with my specialist. He trusts me to keep meticulous records on what/when/how much I take of scemblix. Therefore, he may be amenable to the idea of adding interferon.

Have you looked into Beta Glucan? I've read some intriguing things and wonder if it's worth the trouble as a peripheral supplement to help with TKIs.

A common theme, you've no doubt noticed, is I'm constantly on the search for things that can add marginal gains to our cause. Which is why I'm so meticulous on diet and exercise (did a 4.5 hour bike ride yesterday and will hit the gym today).

My monocytes remain suppressed. My specialist never mentioned them as a proxy. Very interesting yours looks at it.

My labs dating back to 2024 show the highest count at 287 (Jul 2024) with a low of 39 (Feb 2024). They typically average below 100.

My last 5 labs show an average of 86.

I'm inclined to agree re: low dose TKI increasing odds of additional mutations. Anecdotally, the CMLers I've spoken to who remain detectable yet, for one reason or another, opt out of transplant are typically on a standard dose.

The real-world exceptions are the people my specialist works with. He mentioned several CMLers who take a lower than standard dose. In his words, they are still around decades on this low-dose protocol.

Of course, every CMLer is different in terms of mutations. And it would be a severe mistake on my part of use their "success" as a certainty for me.

If he tells me it's time for a transplant, then I'll know every viable option has been exhausted.

I've braced myself for the reality that a transplant may be a reality for me.

However, based on my extensive research, current standard of care is embarrassing - even at the top transplant centers in the states. For example, the critically important variable of microbiome health and diversity is not taken seriously.

A (in my opinion) landmark study from New England Journal of Medicine showed just how important microbiome diversity is in reducing the probability of Grade 3-4 chronic GVHD. The study was published in 2022 if I recall. Yet, the top centers in the states largely seem to dismiss it.

There are some who are integrating microbiome health. For example, University of Michigan is running a trial in which they are giving patients potato starch.

The use of potato starch may sound insane to some. But those like me who really looked into microbiome, it makes sense. Potato starch (or cooked then cooled overnight potatoes) increase butyrate, which improve prognosis in reducing odds of chronic Grade 3-4 GVHD.

There is also a retrospective study which showed the time of day the patient is given donor cells can make a difference.

I've spoken with people who suffer from 3-4 chronic GVHD. It is a living hell for some - with their lives permanently altered. Many of these folks had no choice - as they were AML with dire mutations. Yet discussing at length with them, it is disgusting how their team did not include microbiome health prior to transplant. And this is a population in which the microbiome was severely compromised from the chemo+poor diet+lack of exercise going into transplant. Truly, any and all cancer patients must be their own advocate.

There are some very exciting transplant models - such as Orca T and Orca Q - which will eventually be approved. But the current methods I see being employed at the best centers in the states reduce the odds to little more than a roll of the dice.

Indescribably frustrating to see the disparity between the things that can be done to improve transplant outcomes and what is currently being practiced.

Thanks again and talk soon.

I haven't tried beta glucan and it seems there isn't much info on how it affects CML. However, in terms of inflammation, it seems it does the opposite of what Zileuton does, so I think it may be counterproductive.

Research shows that certain fungal beta-glucans act as strong stimuli that cause human eosinophils and monocytes to generate specific leukotrienes, like LTC4 and LTB4.

https://share.google/aimode/elZIKTQ3R7RBwnx2r

Because CML cells actively exploit leukotriene signaling to fuel their own proliferation, introducing a supplement that actively triggers leukotriene release could theoretically counter the effects of your primary therapy.

https://share.google/aimode/5hKuXWINIhHvV4XS8

Exercise is absolutely critical for healthy metabolism and muscle mass literally shields you from insulin resistance. I lost the drive during covid lockdown and haven't restarted my gym routine. Now I struggle with excess weight from Asciminib, but hope to recover during warm weather.

The doctor said my monocytes rise occasionally probably due to TKIs, it's not related to CML directly.

Low dose does not necessarily correspond to the plasma concentrations. Some people get higher peak on 20 mg Dasatinib than others on 100 mg. This applies to all TKIs. It seems it depends on how well the medication gets absorbed. What I meant is that high BCR should not be ignored long term.

Do you have any other mutations and have you tried other TKIs?

I may be totally wrong about the involvement of my G646T on ASXL1 in TKI resistance since F317L itself is actually quite elusive and it's documented that the combination of Asciminib and Dasatinib may help.

Low sensitive cell lines (i.e. F317V, H396P, Y253F, M244V, and T315I) exhibiting unique resistance profiles that varied with different combinations. Notably, F317V and F317L mutations showed resistance to DAS. When combined with ASC 3nM, F317V showed restored sensitivity with IMA or NIL than with DAS, while F317L better with DAS.

https://ashpublications.org/blood/article/142/Supplement%201/6337/506168...

I assumed ASXL1 was active as my BCR didn't drop on Nilotinib and Bosutinib, but it may be unrelated as there are people with detected ASXL1 mutations who are in deep response on Imatinib and other monotherapies.

https://www.vjhemonc.com/video/a1xor4jebmc-an-analysis-of-the-impact-of-...

I honestly don't understand how TKI affects peripheral blood, but not BCR. Maybe it takes time in certain cases.

I would consider BMT only as a last resort as there are possible long-term risks related to conditioning. I still have Ponatinib as an option and have been considering long term fasting like 20-40 days to see if that could help. It's been used for thousands of years so it used to be quite a normal treatment.

https://share.google/aimode/PwPjMcl7Iatdvry7j

Thanks and take care.

Yes, I also suspected how beta glucan may actually be counter productive but have not seen the studies you cited. Thanks very much.

Re: fasting, @scuba has a thread on this site on how he utilized it to achieve impressive results. I don't know if he still posts here but, if you ask on that particular thread, he may respond. If I recall, I think the longest he fasted is three consecutive days.

As for the rest of the topics you brought up, will address later as I'm headed out the door...for a bike ride!

Have a great weekend.